Color of murex trunculus dye

[rhecht]

the techeiles chaburah video

 

I wouldn't rely on anything there.

 

not arguing
 

 

I would go through the Techeiles video and peruse each source before saying that it's an unreliable video. It was made for the layman so while there are some sources, not everything is directly sourced. One example is R' Avraham ben HaRambam writing about Potzea. I eventually found the source and context after research and asking: https://bluefringes.com/textual_sources ... am-potzea/ .

Like with Wikipedia, don't rely on what someone quotes there, but use the reference to find the original source and go from there.

[rhecht]

@"Mr. Genugshoin" and @Doorknob, please change your usernames to closer to real names. There are multiple reasons for this:

1. This is a serious forum, and
2. It's very easy for someone to hide behind a profile name. Having a name close to your real one adds transparency, and also psychologically makes the user himself feel more accountable before posting.
 
 

[MIlanH]

Ok doorknob speaking. 
Just an example of the unreliability of the techeiles video.
They quote the Gemara in sanhedrin that there was a ban on techeiles, and say that it fits with the murex ban.
in reality, the ban on purple was not in effect during that story of gemara. Rava is mentioned in that gemara, and he died a few hundred years before the purple ban.
this is just one example of many. 
 

[MIlanH]

@"Mr. Genugshoin" and @Doorknob, please change your usernames to closer to real names. There are multiple reasons for this:

1. This is a serious forum, and
2. It's very easy for someone to hide behind a profile name. Having a name close to your real one adds transparency, and also psychologically makes the user himself feel more accountable before posting.

 

I opened a new account in order to change my username. Is there a way to change username without opening a new account?

[Mr. Genugshoin]

Another example of the unreliability is their translation of the above mentioned Raavya.

[rhecht]

@"Mr. Genugshoin" and @Doorknob, please change your usernames to closer to real names. There are multiple reasons for this:

1. This is a serious forum, and
2. It's very easy for someone to hide behind a profile name. Having a name close to your real one adds transparency, and also psychologically makes the user himself feel more accountable before posting.


 

I opened a new account in order to change my username. Is there a way to change username without opening a new account?

 

I can do it for you. Message me what your desired new screenname should be.
 

[rhecht]

Another example of the unreliability is their translation of the above mentioned Raavya.

 

Please explain how it's unreliable?

[Mr. Genugshoin]

Another example of the unreliability is their translation of the above mentioned Raavya.



 

Please explain how it's unreliable?


 

As I wrote before, the Raavya is saying that techeiles is the purple color, not the purple-fish.
Edit: I just saw that you responded to me and I missed it, I will look again, you should be gebentched.
 
 

[Mr. Genugshoin]

1. He is clearly referring to the color just as the leek green is a color.
2. I am asking for positive evidence
 

1. Techeiles and Karti meaning colors or colored wool makes sense the same way orange and peach both mean colors and fruits. I'm not sure where the disagreement is.
2. Purphirin meaning Techeiles because Prisinan means Karti makes perfect logical sense and is positive evidence.

 

I agree with both points, but just as karti and prisinin refer to a color and not an object, so too techeiles and purpura refer to the color and not the object. The color purpura is purple.
#2 was referring to what you wrote about R Herzog, not the Raavya 
 

[rhecht]

1. He is clearly referring to the color just as the leek green is a color.
2. I am asking for positive evidence



 

1. Techeiles and Karti meaning colors or colored wool makes sense the same way orange and peach both mean colors and fruits. I'm not sure where the disagreement is.
2. Purphirin meaning Techeiles because Prisinan means Karti makes perfect logical sense and is positive evidence.




 

I agree with both points, but just as karti and prisinin refer to a color and not an object, so too techeiles and purpura refer to the color and not the object. The color purpura is purple.
#2 was referring to what you wrote about R Herzog, not the Raavya 
 



 

Either purpura is purple or a supercolor of blues which include blue purple. In the attachment here (

blue-purple-red.png (8.43 KiB) Viewed 43649 times

) you can see a range of colors going from blue to red. Colors 1 and 2 from the left could be said to be from the Murex trunculus, but all these colors are purphirin.

Here's another quotation from a 14th century Girsa from a similar Mishna. 
 

14th century quotation.JPG (55.79 KiB) Viewed 43649 times

 The differences here between this and the current Yerushalmi (

Screenshot 2023-02-15 at 6.51.29 PM.png (173.89 KiB) Viewed 43649 times

 ) are subtle yet enough to make one rethink if it's referring to color or material.

As an aside, one reason why Yerushalmi isn't taught in Yeshivas like Bavli is, is because the Yerushalmi went through many more significant changes that different Girsas can change everything we know about what is being said. That's not to say that the Bavli isn't guilty either.